BOS - July 27, 2004 Workshop with W/S

BOS - July 27, 2004 Workshop with W/S

Postby Suzanne Kane » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:52 pm

Board of Selectmen
Meeting Minutes
Joint with Water/Sewer
July 27, 2004
Approved August 3, 2004


1. Call to Order:

Madame Chairman Shirley Mosczynski called the meeting to order at 6:35 pm. In attendance Paula Brouillette, Edward Therrien, Executive Administrator Michael Guzinski, and Administrative Assistant Suzanne Kane.

Other staff and citizens: Water Department Systems Manager Dennis Croteau, Water / Sewer Commission Chair Joseph Saster, Water / Sewer Commission member Robert Josey, Town Engineer William Cundiff, Planning/Conservation Agent Stephen Zisk, Uxbridge Public Works Director Lawrence Bombara, Ayoub Engineering’s Michel Aoun, Fay, Spofford & Thorndike (FST) engineer Dennis Boucher, and Pyne Sand and Gravel owner Jim Pyne.

Shirley Mosczynski thanked everyone for coming. The Board of Selectmen had received a call from the Water/Sewer Commission with concerns about extending water/sewer down to the Shell Station on the Uxbridge / Douglas town line and looking at the potential for that area. Shirley Mosczynski, Michael Guzinski, and William Cundiff met and decided to have this meeting with all parties concerned. She then turned the meeting over to William Cundiff. William Cundiff gave an overview and time line of the project. He explained that the owners of the Shell Station, Motiva Enterprises L.L.C. were issued an Administrative Consent Order by the Department of Environmental Protection because some surrounding wells showed contamination. The Consent Order’s deadline for Motiva to obtain the necessary permits/approvals and to connect the facility to the Douglas water is October 31, 2004. He stated the timeline is workable. William Cundiff stated his concern is that Motiva may look at Douglas and Uxbridge and say they are not being proactive in working with them. He stated they also wanted to call the members of the Four Town group to see what the need is, not only for water but also for sewer. The question is who will pay for sewer since Motiva does not want to absorb the cost of the sewer line. He suggested they ask a representative from Motiva for an update. Michel Aoun stated the delays so far are caused by Ayoub Engineering and the consulting engineers agreeing on the water main size. He stated there is a set of plans that reflects adequate size; they were sent out last week. He sees no exact date when they can start; they are waiting for approval from the two Towns. Michel Aoun stated the Municipal agreement seems to be the thing that delays the project the most. William Cundiff stated that the Towns are not going to drive the project; Motiva has to be the driving force that coordinates the Towns and the project. He stated the Towns are willing to participate; but will not be the initiators. William Cundiff stated Mr. Aoun should be dictating the schedule. Stephen Zisk reported a site walk has been done; they are waiting for the final design. He stated there are some concerns with old catch basins and recommended they talk to Gilford to get old plans. Michel Aoun stated he did talk to Gilford; he has information but it’s not complete. Lawrence Bombara stated he spoke with Mr. Aoun yesterday; he received and reviewed a set of plans. He stated there are three technical issues he has. Lawrence Bombara stated the issues included the ductile iron pipe should be cement lined, the 2" service to the existing house behind the gas station should have an 8" main to the property instead of 2" and then a smaller service into the house, and the valve at the Town line which they show on the plans in close proximity but which should be ok. He stated he agrees that the two Towns should not be driving this project. Uxbridge’s long term plan is more of the Four Town approach. He stated the Municipal Agreement should reflect that there may be changes down the road. Uxbridge agrees that Douglas can supply water for the short term, but eventually it could come in from Uxbridge; it makes sense to look at this as a temporary thing for the Four Towns. Lawrence Bombara stated that working out the Municipal Agreement is going to take some time; Uxbridge has no problem with Douglas supplying the water and maintenance; but temporarily. William Cundiff asked FST Engineer Dennis Boucher how long it would take to put the water line in. Dennis Boucher stated two weeks. Water Department Director Dennis Croteau stated he feels it will be more like two months before everything is done. Lawrence Bombara stated the two Towns need to review, agree and approve the plans; it’s going to take some time. William Cundiff suggested to Michel Aoun that he get onto the Selectmen’s agenda with a draft agreement keeping in mind it will have to go before Town Counsel. Lawrence Bombara reported that in Uxbridge the Board of Selectmen went along with everything; they want something in writing that says the Town is not liable for costs. He cautioned that there are only a couple of months of time. Dennis Croteau asked Mr. Bombara if Uxbridge wants to follow Douglas or Uxbridge’s guidelines for installing the water. Mr. Bombara stated he will have to go over that with him; it makes sense to keep it the same and possibly color coding the valves. William Cundiff stated he knows there is a lot of discussion on the sewer line but Motiva is not willing to pick up the cost of sewer. Dennis Croteau stated it was left after their last meeting to have this meeting to talk things out; they gave Motiva an ‘OK’ to move forward with the water; sewage can be done later. Lawrence Bombara stated there is an old plan with sewer to the old Hutnak property, currently Pyne Sand and Stone. William Cundiff stated he has never seen it. Lawrence Bombara stated he would get it for him; saying you can’t think about sewerage with out Town Meeting. Pyne Sand and Stone owner Jim Pyne stated he thinks of water and sewer as two different animals and thinks they are on the right track to get sewer out that way. Mr. Pyne stated that as far as sewerage goes; he has a septic system and only 22 employees. As far as the future, he feels it is really the Town of Douglas that decides what development is on that end of Town. Mr. Pyne stated that in Hopkinton there is at least an opportunity to tie into abutting Towns and feels it’s a good idea. Water / Sewer Commissioner Robert Josey stated the sewer issue came up several years ago. He also stated he did not realize it was going to take so long to get the agreements. Dennis Croteau stated his concern is whether they dig a trench or overlay the whole road. Michel Aoun reminded the Water / Sewer Commission that they had also mentioned they would ask the residents if they were willing to tie in. Edward Therrien state he feels they need to open both sides of the road and then overlay the whole thing. He suggested not using gravel but using the ‘Real McCoy’. Lawrence Bombara agreed. Dennis Croteau stated that at the last meeting they were told the car wash was a dead issue; if it is they should get a letter stating so. Lawrence Bombara stated ‘in Uxbridge nothing is ever a dead issue’. Dennis Croteau stated he is upset that representatives from Motiva, the Town of Sutton and the Town of Northbridge are not here. He stated they need a game plan. Jim Pyne stated he feels all utilities are the responsibility of the Town; if any business is going to go into that area, they will need utilities. Water / Sewer Commissioner Chair Joseph Saster agreed with Mr. Pyne, they need something to attract people. Dennis Croteau agreed and stated the money just isn’t there; maybe the Four Town group could get a grant. Joseph Saster stated it has always been money since he moved here in ’46; ‘you got to move it’. Lawrence Bombara suggested they get all the paperwork for the sewer line done and approved then don’t do the work, just sit on it; maybe a contractor will come in and take their approved plans and pay to have it put in. Joseph Saster stated it is not just a pipeline; they would have to change the pump station. Michel Aoun asked if the Water / Sewer Commission is given guarantees and in seven years no one is interested in putting sewer in what will they do, would they considers separating the two projects. Dennis Croteau stated he does not see it as an issue of ‘will it get done’ but when and who will pay. Lawrence Bombara asked Michel Aoun if Motiva would be willing to help with the design costs for the sewer and get it approved; then they would be released from having it done. Shirley Mosczynski asked Lawrence Bombara what happened with the proposed car wash. Mr. Bombara stated he is not aware of what happened. Michel Aoun stated the person he spoke to said it was a dead issue. William Cundiff stated the project was withdrawn without prejudice from ZBA. Shirley Mosczynski reported that the Board of Selectmen has set up a meeting and is extending it to the Water / Sewer Commission, Planning Board, Conservation Commission, Zoning Board of Appeals, Economic Development Commission, Town of Sutton, Mr. Pyne, Heritage Design Group, Heritage Corridor Commission, William Cundiff and Steve Zisk to further talk about potential development of this area. Dennis Boucher stated FST’s study goes beyond Motiva’s extension. He went on to say that what drives the size of the lines is what is required by fire demands, not residential demands. The Town can not provide that at this time; they are looking at supplying this for the future. Mr. Boucher stated there is also an issue of storage that those demands require; for the future they will need to put storage in. The question for supply to other communities and Towns; they may need to look for another source of supply. The Town of Douglas needs to think further then supplying water to the gas station and other residents. Mr. Boucher stated this will not happen all at once; he is not sure what kind of industry will come in. Supply, storage, and distribution are three things the Town needs to look at and what his study will provide. He cautioned that it could take up to five years to get a new well on service. Lawrence Bombara stated that is another reason to look at the Four Town group. Paula Brouillette went over what the Four Town group has been talking about; stating they are getting ready to put a plan together then look for funding. Dennis Boucher stated they should also think about metering, it might be part of the Municipal Agreement. Lawrence Bombara stated that right now there are just a few, Douglas can take care of them. When looking at a Municipal Agreement have flexibility so they are not tying anyone’s hands. Robert Josey asked Michel Aoun if Motiva would be willing to put money towards the engineering of the sewer line; right now no one needs sewer. Lawrence Bombara reported that the septic did fail at the Shell station. Mr. Aoun stated it was not designed for that type of use. He asked to get something in writing as to what Motiva needs to do to get the water line approved. Dennis Croteau stated it would take a vote of the Boards. Joseph Saster stated he does not feel the Town should be responsible for the engineering cost for the sewer line. Dennis Croteau stated they need to see if there is an existing plan for a sewer line as Lawrence Bombara stated; then all it will need is to be submitted and approved by the Town and DEP. Lawrence Bombara again stated he will look for the plan and stated he feels it was only self serving for the old Hutnak property. Dennis Croteau stated they will need to have the lift station looked at. Jim Pyne asked if they think there is a point when they ask the businesses to cover the cost of the engineering, that they will sell the property as a station and move up the street. Joseph Saster stated it would be no loss to Douglas. Mr. Pyne stated that if they stay Douglas gets water extended up the road; that is something Douglas gets. Lawrence Bombara stated that if he can find that plan that will be 99% of the engineering costs. Shirley Mosczynski summarized; Michel Aoun needs to get some sample Municipal Agreements and Lawrence Bombara will look for the sewer plan to the old Hutnak property. William Cundiff stated it would probably be a good idea to have FST look at the Municipal Agreement to make sure they are serving both Towns. Michel Aoun stated he will bring it to his client’s attention; they have their own lawyers. Dennis Croteau stressed to Michel Aoun that he needs to make sure Motiva knows they have to drive this project. Michel Aoun admitted that he did not realize that before this meeting. William Cundiff stated they do not need DEP approval for the Municipal Agreement; but felt it would be prudent of them to include the DEP. Dennis Croteau stated he would like to see the cross connection plan for the gas station. Michel Aoun assured Dennis Croteau that he would get them.

2. Adjournment:
Paula Brouillette made a motion to adjourn at 8:05 pm. Edward Therrien seconded the motion. All – aye.

Respectfully submitted:



Suzanne Kane
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